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number-theory add tag
Adám

As opposed to technical sites, answers to code golf challenges are not supposed to be helpful to the challenge poster, so up-voting them does not serve as much of a purpose.

I think a viable path which also solves some of the needs for ensuring quality challenges would be to prevent code golf posts from receiving any answers until they reach a certain threshold of upvotes.

Top Answer
xnor

I like this idea of keeping questions unanswerable until sufficiently starred, as a sort of Sandbox.

I do have a concern, having seen upvotes in the CGCC Sandbox meaning “this is a cool idea” rather than “this is ready to go live”, that the same would happen here. Maybe the ideal would be to have some separate vote indicating “I’ve checked through this Sandboxed question and found no issues or ambiguities”.

Answer #2
Adám

Proposal

Chat uses stars ☆/★ to pin messages. Reputation-gaining votes are with hearts ♡/♥.

This proposal accomplishes the following goals:

  • Encourage writing challenges by rewarding challenges more than answers.
  • Give experienced users more say in site policy
  • Trusts experienced users more when it comes to judging the quality of a proposed challenge.
  • Shows more confidence in the ability of experienced users to write good challenges.

Voting systems

There are two voting systems in effect:

Variable voting

Posts with variable voting use the TopAnswer system where one can choose to vote with between 1 vote and P(r) votes, were r is one’s reputation, as follows:

P(r)=1+log10(1+r)P(r)=1+⌊\log_{10}(1+r)⌋

Single voting

Posts with single voting can only ever receive a single vote from each user, no matter how much reputation that user has.

Meta

Questions

It is fairly easy to ask a meta question, so Meta Questions have single voting.

Answers

People need to be able to express opinions on Meta Answers. Experienced users are better able to decide what is good site policy so these posts have variable voting

Code Golf, Fastest Code, etc.

Challenges

Challenges are very hard to get right. Experienced users are better able to judge what constitutes a good challenge, so these posts have variable voting.

To ensure quality challenges, all challenges are locked down (cannot receive any answers) until they reach a threshold of hearts. This threshold T(r) also depends on the authors reputation r:

T(r)=7log10(1+r)T(r)=7-⌊\log_{10}(1+r)⌋

This means that newcomers need 7 votes to launch a challenge, while more experienced users need less. xnor-level users would need 2 upvotes, and Jon Skeet only 1.

Once one has reached 9 rep, just two 100-rep users voting full marks would be enough to launch.

The “7” can increased if we see that low quality challenges are approved.

Before having gathered enough upvotes to launch, other people’s challenge posts will read:

♡0 rate as ready: ♡♡♡

Your own will say:

♥0 (more required to launch)

After launch, other people’s posts will say:

♡0 rate as good: ♡♡♡

Your own will only say:

♥0

Answers

It is (usually) relatively easy to answer challenges, so these have single voting.

Golfing Tips

Requests

It is very easy to ask for help on golfing, so Tips Questions have single voting.

Answers

It is also easy to provide tips, so Tips Answers have single voting too.

Blog Posts

Blog posts use variable voting. They cannot receive answers.

Answer #3
Skillmon

I, too, like the idea of keeping question unanswerable.

But I don’t like the fact that currently answers aren’t applicable for stars. I don’t have ideas on challenges, but I love to try to tackle them with TeX (because programming in TeX is such a unique experience). As it currently stands someone who has asked many questions/created challenges will have more voting power to approve new questions compared to someone who has answered many but didn’t create any. Though I’d personally think that the latter person can judge on good/bad questions just as good.


Turned my comment into an answer.

Answer #4
Jack Douglas

I think a viable path which also solves some of the needs for ensuring quality challenges would be to prevent code golf posts from receiving any answers until they reach a certain threshold of upvotes.

5 years
Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Friday, 31st Jan 2020 20:57

a couple of basics are in place: you can now (single) vote on Code Golf answers, and we’ve added ‘Atomic Code Golf’ with the same voting rules. We’ve also added ‘Tips’ with single voting on both questions and answers.

21 hours
Adám replying to Jack Douglas — Friday, 31st Jan 2020 00:05

Great, looking forward to trying it in action.

23 minutes
Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Thursday, 30th Jan 2020 23:42

we should be able to get at least some of this implemented very soon — some bits may take longer though!

17 hours
Adám replying to Bubbler — Thursday, 30th Jan 2020 07:04

It is already mentioned that the 7 can be tweaked, but of course, all policy can be changed. It could e.g. be reasonable to include a factor k<1 in ⌊k log₁₀(1 + r)⌋

2 hours
Bubbler replying to Adám — Thursday, 30th Jan 2020 04:55

Looks generally good to me, assuming the formula for T(r) (number of hearts needed to launch) can be tweaked as we go.

a day
Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 17:17

@Jack @Bubbler What do you think of https://topanswers.xyz/codegolf?q=602#a697 ?

2 hours
Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 15:07

Even title elements for peoples avatars could just say 42♥

Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 15:07

There’s really no reason to ever spell out the name of the icon.

Adám replying to Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 15:05

0♥ rate as ready: ♡♡
5♥ rate as good: ♡♡

Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 15:03

having a higher threshhold for questions to launch would actually help that by (a) giving questions a voting headstart (b) helping everyone get in the mindset of voting on questions. Getting 1,000 stars isn’t a very high bar so quite a few of your regulars will likely be able to award up to 4 stars — I wouldn’t be surprised if you wanted the threshold to be 10 or even 20 eventually

Adám replying to Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:59

Yes, we actually don’t need the parenthesis. There’s really no need to tell everyone how many more are needed.

Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:59

(or hearts or whatever)

Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:59

more simple would be to use rocket icon until launched then switch to stars?

Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:59

bit wordy though

Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:58

that’s easy to do

Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:58

tweaked to “X more required to launch”

Adám replying to Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:56

0 stars (2 more required) rate as ready: ☆☆
5 stars (challenge open) rate as good: ☆☆

Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:52

what does “state of the challenge” mean, just ‘launched’ or ‘not launched’?

Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:52

what kind of text, I don’t follow you there

Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:50

done (needs refresh)

Bubbler replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:48

Ah, I thought you’re suggesting to list N symbols and fill them in as a post gets upvotes.

Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:48

Ooh, maybe even 6-AuthorVotingPower, so newcomers need 5 upvotes to launch, beginners need 4, experienced colfers need 3.

Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:47

I don’t envision changing the threshold often. SE requires 4 votes to close a Q. I’d say 4 or 5 upvotes to launch is good.

Adám replying to Bubbler — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:46

How so?

Bubbler replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:45

That would be messy when we raise the threshold

Adám replying to Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:45

Yet another reason why the icons should be different. Stars are fine for chat, but hearts are better for posts/answers. Post and answers need to be the same icon for the total count to make sense,

Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:44

@Jack Would it be possible to inject text between “0 stars (2 more required)” and ☆☆ depending on the state of the challenge?

Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:43
Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:43

Yes, good idea, I’ll do that

Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:43

no they don’t

Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:41

@Jack Chat stars don’t count towards one’s rep, does it?

Bubbler — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:41
Adám replying to Bubbler — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:39

Yes. Well, maybe mention that it is an intentional dup.

Bubbler replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:38

Do you mean the exact copy of title and body?

Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:36

@Bubbler Can you post a clone of https://topanswers.xyz/codegolf?q=630 please?

Bubbler replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:34

Yeah, you’re totally right.

Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:32

@Jack Can you add a tooltip (title) to the disabled [provide an answer] button explaining that “this challenge requires N more stars”?

Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:31

And top contributors will also have a stronger say in site policy by being able to give higher ratings on meta posts.

Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:30

But allowing top contributors to give multiple “stars” (I’m leaning towards hearts) does effectively make challenges more worth than answers.

Bubbler — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:27

Actually many of us on SE wanted upvotes on questions (i.e. challenges) worth more than on answers.

Adám replying to Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:26

I think the best answer sort order for us is alphabetical by markdown-less content.

Adám replying to Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:25

Top contributors would still have more say in judging challenges. That said, it worth noting that writing a good code golf challenge is significantly harder than writing a good answer. So there’s something to be said for being able to get mare reward for a a challenge than an answer.

Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:22

My suggestion would be simply to allow voting on answers, but don’t sort by votes by default (if there is some other obvious sort order here)

Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:21

possible, but it would break one our USPs over SE, so I’d want you to be really sure it’s important. Isn’t it OK to reward the sites top contributors with extra voting power here too? It’s an aspect of the system that has had a lot of positive feedback in the other communities.

Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:15

A lot of people never (or only after a long time) post challenges, so they’ll never be able to earn any rep. Would it be possible to allow voting on answers too, but only up to a maximum of one point, regardless of one’s rep?

Jack Douglas replying to Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:14

that is true

Adám replying to Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:13

I don’t think that changes anything. The users that need to learn the system are the newcomers with only one vote.

Jack Douglas — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:11

I should have explained that earlier ^^^^
Screenshot 2020-01-28 at 14.12.43.png

Jack Douglas replying to Bubbler — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:11
Adám — Tuesday, 28th Jan 2020 14:07

Or maybe file-o/file or file-text-o/file-text

Enter question or answer id or url (and optionally further answer ids/urls from the same question) from

Separate each id/url with a space. No need to list your own answers; they will be imported automatically.