TopAnswers Code Golf
or
Adám
number-theory
As opposed to technical sites, answers to code golf challenges are not supposed to be helpful to the challenge poster, so up-voting them does not serve as much of a purpose.

I think a viable path which also solves some of the needs for ensuring quality challenges would be to prevent code golf posts from receiving any answers until they reach a certain threshold of upvotes.
Top Answer
xnor
I like this idea of keeping questions unanswerable until sufficiently starred, as a sort of Sandbox.

I do have a concern, having seen upvotes in the CGCC Sandbox meaning "this is a cool idea" rather than "this is ready to go live", that the same would happen here. Maybe the ideal would be to have some separate vote indicating "I've checked through this Sandboxed question and found no issues or ambiguities".
Answer #2
Adám
# Proposal
Chat uses stars ☆/★ to pin messages. Reputation-gaining votes are with hearts ♡/♥.

This proposal accomplishes the following goals:
* Encourage writing challenges by rewarding challenges more than answers.
* Give experienced users more say in site policy
* Trusts experienced users more when it comes to judging the quality of a proposed challenge.
* Shows more confidence in the ability of experienced users to write good challenges.

## Voting systems
There are two voting systems in effect:

### Variable voting
Posts with variable voting use the TopAnswer system where one can choose to vote with between 1 vote and *P*(*r*) votes, were *r* is one's reputation, as follows:
$$P(r)=1+⌊\log_{10}(1+r)⌋$$
### Single voting
Posts with single voting can only ever receive a single vote from each user, no matter how much reputation that user has.
## Meta
### Questions
It is fairly easy to ask a meta question, so Meta Questions have **single voting**.
### Answers
People need to be able to express opinions on Meta Answers. Experienced users are better able to decide what is good site policy so these posts have **variable voting**
## Code Golf, Fastest Code, etc.
### Challenges
Challenges are very hard to get right. Experienced users are better able to judge what constitutes a good challenge, so these posts have **variable voting**.

To ensure quality challenges, all challenges are locked down (cannot receive any answers) until they reach a threshold of hearts. This threshold *T*(*r*) also depends on the authors reputation *r*:
$$T(r)=7-⌊\log_{10}(1+r)⌋$$
This means that newcomers need 7 votes to launch a challenge, while more experienced users need less. xnor-level users would need 2 upvotes, and Jon Skeet only 1.

Once one has reached 9 rep, just two 100-rep users voting full marks would be enough to launch.

The "7" can increased if we see that low quality challenges are approved.

Before having gathered enough upvotes to launch, other people's challenge posts will read:
> ♡0 rate as ready: ♡♡♡

Your own will say:
> ♥0 (more required to launch)

After launch, other people's posts will say:
> ♡0 rate as good: ♡♡♡

Your own will only say:
> ♥0

### Answers
It is (usually) relatively easy to answer challenges, so these have **single voting**.
## Golfing Tips
### Requests
It is very easy to ask for help on golfing, so Tips Questions have **single voting**.
### Answers
It is also easy to provide tips, so Tips Answers have **single voting** too.
## Blog Posts
Blog posts use variable voting. They cannot receive answers.
Answer #3
Jack Douglas
> I think a viable path which also solves some of the needs for ensuring quality challenges would be to prevent code golf posts from receiving any answers until they reach a certain threshold of upvotes.

@@@ answer 683
Answer #4
Skillmon
I, too, like the idea of keeping question unanswerable.

But I don't like the fact that currently answers aren't applicable for stars. I don't have ideas on challenges, but I love to try to tackle them with TeX (because programming in TeX is such a unique experience). As it currently stands someone who has asked many questions/created challenges will have more voting power to approve new questions compared to someone who has answered many but didn't create any. Though I'd personally think that the latter person can judge on good/bad questions just as good.

-----

Turned my comment into an answer.
How should voting work here?
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
a couple of basics are in place: you can now (single) vote on Code Golf answers, and we've added 'Atomic Code Golf' with the same voting rules. We've also added 'Tips' with single voting on both questions and answers.
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
Great, looking forward to trying it in action.
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
we should be able to get at least some of this implemented very soon — some bits may take longer though!
Adám replying to Bubbler
It is already mentioned that the 7 can be tweaked, but of course, all policy can be changed. It could e.g. be reasonable to include a factor *k*<1 in ⌊*k* log₁₀(1 + *r*)⌋
Bubbler replying to Adám
Looks generally good to me, assuming the formula for T(r) (number of hearts needed to launch) can be tweaked as we go.
Adám
@Jack @Bubbler What do you think of https://topanswers.xyz/codegolf?q=602#a697 ?
Adám
Even title elements for peoples avatars could just say 42♥
Adám
There's really no reason to ever spell out the name of the icon.
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
0♥ rate as ready: ♡♡
5♥ rate as good: ♡♡
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
having a higher threshhold for questions to launch would actually help that by (a) giving questions a voting headstart (b) helping everyone get in the mindset of voting on questions. Getting 1,000 stars isn't a very high bar so quite a few of your regulars will likely be able to award up to 4 stars — I wouldn't be surprised if you wanted the threshold to be 10 or even 20 eventually
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
Yes, we actually don't need the parenthesis. There's really no need to tell everyone how many more are needed.
Jack Douglas
(or hearts or whatever)
Jack Douglas
more simple would be to use rocket icon until launched then switch to stars?
Jack Douglas
bit wordy though
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
that's easy to do
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
tweaked to "X more required to launch"
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
0 stars (2 more required) rate as ready: ☆☆
5 stars (challenge open) rate as good: ☆☆
Jack Douglas
what does "state of the challenge" mean, just 'launched' or 'not launched'?
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
what kind of text, I don't follow you there
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
done (needs refresh)
Bubbler replying to Adám
Ah, I thought you're suggesting to list N symbols and fill them in as a post gets upvotes.
Adám
Ooh, maybe even 6-AuthorVotingPower, so newcomers need 5 upvotes to launch, beginners need 4, experienced colfers need 3.
Adám
I don't envision changing the threshold often. SE requires 4 votes to close a Q. I'd say 4 or 5 upvotes to launch is good.
Adám replying to Bubbler
How so?
Bubbler replying to Adám
That would be messy when we raise the threshold
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
Yet another reason why the icons should be different. Stars are fine for chat, but hearts are better for posts/answers. Post and answers need to be the same icon for the total count to make sense,
Adám
@Jack Would it be possible to inject text between "0 stars (2 more required)" and ☆☆ depending on the state of the challenge?
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
https://github.com/ForkAwesome/Fork-Awesome/issues/223
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
Yes, good idea, I'll do that
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
no they don't
Adám
@Jack Chat stars don't count towards one's rep, does it?
Bubbler
[Done.](https://topanswers.xyz/codegolf?q=631)
Adám replying to Bubbler
Yes. Well, maybe mention that it is an intentional dup.
Bubbler replying to Adám
Do you mean the exact copy of title and body?
Adám
@Bubbler Can you post a clone of https://topanswers.xyz/codegolf?q=630 please?
Bubbler replying to Adám
Yeah, you're totally right.
Adám
@Jack Can you add a tooltip (title) to the disabled [provide an answer] button explaining that "this challenge requires N more stars"?
Adám
And top contributors will also have a stronger say in site policy by being able to give higher ratings on meta posts.
Adám
But allowing top contributors to give multiple "stars" (I'm leaning towards hearts) does effectively make challenges more worth than answers.
Bubbler
Actually many of us on SE wanted upvotes on questions (i.e. challenges) worth *more* than on answers.
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
I think the best answer sort order for us is alphabetical by markdown-less content.
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
Top contributors would still have more say in judging challenges. That said, it worth noting that writing a good code golf challenge is *significantly* harder than writing a good answer. So there's something to be said for being able to get mare reward for a a challenge than an answer.
Jack Douglas
My suggestion would be simply to allow voting on answers, but don't sort by votes by default (if there is some other obvious sort order here)
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
possible, but it would break one our USPs over SE, so I'd want you to be really sure it's important. Isn't it OK to reward the sites top contributors with extra voting power here too? It's an aspect of the system that has had a lot of positive feedback in the other communities.
Adám
A lot of people never (or only after a long time) post challenges, so they'll never be able to earn any rep. Would it be possible to allow voting on answers too, but only up to a maximum of one point, regardless of one's rep?
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
that is true
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
I don't think that changes anything. The users that need to learn the system are the newcomers with only one vote.
Jack Douglas
I should have explained that earlier ^^^^
![Screenshot 2020-01-28 at 14.12.43.png](/image?hash=8d4466981d8ab493cf6906a7b6383ea3428a4a28f97521d596afe56eadbafa94)
Jack Douglas replying to Bubbler
https://topanswers.xyz/meta?q=232#a179
Adám
Or maybe file-o/file or file-text-o/file-text
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
Yes, but they are used two different ways on TA right now. Hearts are universal for approval too, and rating when one only has one or two stars doesn't make so much sense. Amazon et al use at least three, but often up to five or six stars.
Bubbler replying to Jack Douglas
Isn't the Amazon one for rating between (say) 1 to 5? It feels different from the mechanism we use here, at least to me.
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
Nah, that's a waste. How about envelope-o/envelope?
Jack Douglas
I'm happy to let that be customized per-communty — in fact I think that would be a good thing
Jack Douglas
stars are idiomatic rating indicators, eg on Amazon
Jack Douglas replying to Adám
we'd have to switch to using svgs instead of fork awesome characters and design our own — it's doable though
Adám
Thumb up is too much Facebook-y for me.
Adám
Both thumb and heart have filled/unfilled variants.
Bubbler
Heart is also OK, I guess. (Heart is another one of emojis available on GitHub issues.)
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
What would an unfilled rocket look like?
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
Heart? Stars are for pinning chat msgs.
Bubbler
How about "thumbs up" in place of stars?
Jack Douglas
::: quote 617 15821 811 bfbfbf 2b2b2b
Adám replying to Jack Douglas — [*2 hours ago*](#c15821)
>Maybe "X more required to launch"
:::
Jack Douglas
along with your suggested text:
Jack Douglas
how would you feel about having the rocket icon for questions (for a defined list of question types), and stars for everything else (including other question types like 'meta'), but the rockets and stars count towards the total star count for each user?
Jack Douglas replying to Bubbler
it's the equivalent of voting and rep on SE
Bubbler
What does a white/black star mean right now?
Adám
The heartbeat state should go black→green while the heart state should go black→gold.
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
Oh, here's an idea: heart-o on all posts for when not hovered over, and then when awaiting approval, hover/selected changes it to heartbeat, while answers and approved challenges become heart. Would that be possible?
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
I don't like the golf ball. We don't want to associate code golf with the ball sport. I find it somewhat problematic that two icons are used for the two radically different opinions (this is ready vs I like this), but I get that you want only one icon. The star gives me the feeling of pinning something for later, which it isn't. It is hard to find a neutral icon that can convey both readiness and approval. You also need two icons, one to replace the empty star and one to replace the full one, no? Could circle-o and check-circle-o work? Or maybe square-o and check-square-o?
Jack Douglas
how about a golf ball icon like this (with or without the pin):
![Screenshot 2020-01-28 at 13.07.32.png](/image?hash=3f3d6f09d1cfd184923546ee4d8e5a4468fb863a3ff4b6f5d8dd24e160a5cd10)
I'd prefer a single icon that can be used everywhere in a community (the rocket would be a bit odd for answers to meta questions, or to any other question types that support votes on answers).
Adám replying to Skillmon
Neither am I, but clearly both terms are correct for rockets as evidenced by Wikipedia.
Skillmon replying to Adám
I'm no native speaker, I thought it was "ready for take-off" for rockets, most likely you're right though :)
Adám
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_launch) says *A rocket launch is the takeoff phase of the flight of a rocket.* :-)
Adám replying to Skillmon
It is called a rocket launch, no? Rockets launch, airplanes take off.
Skillmon replying to Adám
if the rocket is used, "for take-off"?
Adám replying to Jack Douglas
Maybe "X more required to launch"
Bubbler
Apparently that icon is also used in [commit](https://gitmoji.carloscuesta.me/) [messages](https://opensource.com/article/19/2/emoji-log-git-commit-messages) for similar meaning.
Bubbler
Idea for the icon: Rocket emoji. I've seen it being used in GitHub issues to express excitement when a major feature is ready for deployment.
Jack Douglas replying to xnor
It's certainly not impossible — the actual star is just a character from Fork Awesome and could be customised per community along with the word 'star'. We'd need a clear alternative, and I think we'd need to wait until we can be sure that posts are being upvoted for the wrong reasons first, but I can say with confidence that if get both of those we'll put the effort in to making the change.
xnor
In fact, we had tried having posts that give specific suggested criteria to upvote on CGCC, but found that many users seemed to ignore them.
xnor
@JackDouglas Would changing the icon/term from "stars" be an option for this site? I think that stars are so ingrained as meaning "cool" or "favorite" on the web that text won't override that. I don't have any specific ideas though.
Jack Douglas
@xnor I am not sure we'd want to implement something so fundamentally different to other communities here as to have separate vote types, but I'm also not sure you need it as we have the "(X more required)" text visible — that's a pretty clear indication of what stars mean here and should cause people to hesitate if they really just want to say "this is cool". Hover text could easily be added to say something like "only star this post if you think it is ready to receive answers" if you think that would be an improvement.
Jack Douglas replying to Skillmon
that is worthy of an answer @Skillmon
Skillmon
I, too, like the idea of keeping question unanswerable. But I don't like the  fact that currently answers aren't applicable for stars. I don't have ideas on challenges, but I love to try to tackle them with TeX (because programming in TeX is such a unique experience). As it currently stands someone who has asked many questions/created challenges will have more voting power to approve new questions compared to someone who has answered many but didn't create any. Though I'd personally think that the latter person can judge on good/bad questions just as good.
Adám
@xnor Yeah, sounds good; [Cool] and [Ready] votes. And maybe even [Uncool]?